Has anybody had any listening experience comparing the analog output of the Sony to a high quality line stage vs. As supplied, the Wadia 850's maximum output level was 4. The price in comparison to the other players mentioned makes it also a bargain. WADIA 521. Wadia 850 CD Player We have a consignment Wadia 850 compact disc player for sale. According to many reviews the transporter is on par with modern cd-players upto $5k. I have a few candidates but I wanted some other opinions. 0, and Sony Xa7ES. Thiel 7. Hello, I recently sold my all Sonic Frontiers which including cd transport, dac, preamp and power amplification and got myself a Krell FPB-300c. If you own an 850 I would like to hear from you on this unit. Naim CDX vs. 850 nó là model trong dòng 8 nếu tính từ dưới lên thì nó trên 830, có thể cho nó là thay thế cho con 21 thì có vẻ thuyết phục hơn. ML no39, Wadia 850, Classe 1. Mods for Wadia Has anyone had either the standard or reference modification performed on their Wadia 850? If so, how much improvement does it offer to the Wadia and is it a good value?wadia 581, accuphase dp75, aero capital mkII, Mbl. However it looses on bass slam and dynamics to the Levinson. I am thinking of sending my Wadia 850 for a modification but wonder how are these guys. So far i was looking at the Wadia 850 and the Mark Levinson 39. I'm designing my system around a Wadia 850 and CJ's Prem. More recent CD players such as the S7i, 581 and 781 have the most open. Hello, I recently sold my all Sonic Frontiers which including cd transport, dac, preamp and power amplification and got myself a Krell FPB-300c. Can I directly connect a Wadia 850 to a Spectral DMA 150 without using a Spectral pre-amp? I understand that the Spectral pre-amp give very current output (upto 1 amp) and a maixinum voltage of 100v peak for the power-amp. But after the 301 was fully broken in, the two players were very close, and the slight. Synergistic Research PHT - Phono Transducer - Green Dream and Black Widow. Can I directly connect a Wadia 850 to a Spectral DMA 150 without using a Spectral pre-amp? I understand that the Spectral pre-amp give very current output (upto 1 amp) and a maixinum voltage of 100v peak for the power-amp. Finally I agree with YOU that a WADIA is the player to go when it comes to Red Book CDs!Can I directly connect a Wadia 850 to a Spectral DMA 150 without using a Spectral pre-amp? I understand that the Spectral pre-amp give very current output (upto 1 amp) and a maixinum voltage of 100v peak for the power-amp. Sony 5 Disc Cd Changer. I am thinking of sending my Wadia 850 for a modification but wonder how are these guys. 31dBFS (16-bit data). Comparison of Wadia 850 to Meridian 588. I owned a Wadia 850 for 10 years, before the Wadia I owned a Meridian, I don't recall the model anymore, at the time I bought because of it's analog sound. 1 The Wadia was more lively and incisive, but it seemed to exaggerate certain frequencies, like the sound was fed through a graphic equalizer, although details seemed intact. 03-21-2002 at 08:45pm. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability. I am interested in getting the best CD player out there as one of my digital sources. I was wondering if the $1500. Levinson 39 or Wadia 830/850/860 ? There are quite a few of these in the used market. FRONT PANEL CONTROLS The basic controls necessary to operate the Wadia 850 CD Player are located on the front panel of the unit. 00 difference through their local dealer and Wadia. 3 responses Add your response. I refer readers to that review for a full description of the processor's technology and functionality. My brother-in-law lives in Windsor and I saw that the Audiovenue had a second hand Kav 300i in stock. If I ever should replace my ZZ-8, it would be with Wadia's 21 or 16 model. I am shipping a Wadia 850 and some have told me there is a transit screw on the bottom to lock the transport. Wadia GNSC I have to start a new thread here as I am looking for any feedback possible on a comparison they might have done on a Wadia 850 with GNSC mods and a Wadia 861se - no mods. Much better player all around. I have the itch to try something new, and am wondering if I will lose or gain in the lows with a Mephisto II X. Cambridge Audio 840C (no volume is a minus) 6. care to share, anyone? help from Wadia and ML CD player owners. Let me know if any of you have recommendations here. Given my success with other X-Series S/R products, I think I will audition the new S/R Res. 24 it to the Wadia, and Linn, and find the M/L to be equal in performance. experience with Steve Huntley's Reference Upgrade for the Wadia. the Wadia. Delete. I liked the music in produced a lot---so much so I sold my BAT VK50-se preamp. One not in this group, but also considered is Njoe Tjoeb 4000+all upgrades. Linn's CD12 is also great, but much too expensive. 99. Has anyone had experience with Steve Huntley's Reference Upgrade for the Wadia 850? nathanu 11-07-2000 3:05pm. What opinions do you have on the best CD player I can pick? Thanks for the help. . Electronics; Electronics; Major Appliances; TV, Video & Home Audio Electronics; Surveillance & Smart Home Electronics; Portable Audio & Headphones; Vehicle Electronics & GPSDoes anyone here use your Wadia CD player to amp without going through the preamp? mad318 06-06-2002 9:42am. Wadia 850 STD CD Player With 861 Upgraded Internal READ DESCRIPTION. I get really audible hum even when the amp is off and still connected to the. However, the Wadia 302 is current. (Yes, I have a long XLR into the amp from the preamp, and have several audio sources, tuner, vinyl so I cannot be purist. Using todays standards for sound and quality. Owners of the 860x can upgrade to the 861 for the 500. Anyone familiar with the relative "sound" of accuphase, wadia, aero, and mbl? These seem to be all highly regarded players, but I'm. Over a couple months, I borrowed a Wadia 3200, and later a Cal Delta. I am in the process of replacing my MIT Z cords on both my Bryston 9B THX amp and my Wadia 850. However it looses on bass slam and dynamics to the Levinson. My dealing with Wadia for the past 3 months have n. I would like to hear from people who have tried both units. Nov 07, 2000The Wadia has more air and the voice sound much better. . 24 best? I have narrowed down my choices to one of these three players (I would also consider the 860) I haven't been able to compare them head to head as I sort of live in the boonies and the nearest shops have the players but at diffrent places. This is a rare vintage Wadia Digital 850 high fidelity CD player. I had made the decision to buy a Meridian 588 as my single play CD player. Ref . Of course, the Wadia 850 has a volume control built into it as do all Wadia's CD players and digital processors. . With the subs on, the system sprang to life with the Goldmund. Used Wadia for sale on 300+ second hand hifi sites & shops. The only reservation I had was when I connected up the newly acquired Wadia 850 player the sound stage was not as startling as the owners of the Wadia player seem to say it would be. I am looking at buying a Wadia 301. Tube Cd Player. Prefer used. The Wadia 850 is an excellent integrated CD transport and D/A. Although very clean, quiet, and with remote, the sound of Line 2 is not as musical as either JPL or Unison Research Mystery One that I owned. I've only heard the 21 of those two, but I liked the 21 better than the 850 and owners of the 16 state that it is far better than the 21. 2) Several years ago I has a Wadia 25 and it was an excellent DAC. 00 and is available now for $2,999. Inserting these interconnects into my system was a defining moment. Same with the Accuphase, yet the Accuphase has more a natural liquid bloom, while the Esoteric K 01 has a more dynamic presence. Message User. I opted not to buy it because the Phillips transport is long since unavailable, and I didn't want to risk buying a $575 paperweight if the unit failed outside the seller's warranty period. I currently run a Wadia 850 direct to a Jeff Rowland Model 2, with balanced XLR interconnects. How does the Threshold T2 stack up against the Wadia 850 accompanied with the Wadia 17 AD converter for sound as a preamp? I can't wait to hear these responses!!!!! My system currently uses a Wadia 850 w Threshold T2 preamp, Bryston 10B crossover, pair of Threshold S-500 Series II amps to Infinity RS-1b speakers for my analogue portion. . Copy Comment URL. Worth the price diff plus it's upgradable to the 861. randalleron 10-10-2000 3:03pm 5 responses Add your responseI run an Adcom 750 preamp to a Pass A5 into electrostats. 39. Laser wouldn't read and the changer kept sticking. Plastic crap: WADIA 831. Comparing the sound of the 850 used with the line preamplifier with it used direct into the power amplifiers, with levels matched at 1kHz, it was. Plastic crap: WADIA 302. WA. Has anyone had experience with Steve Huntley's Reference Upgrade for the Wadia. Just wanted to get some feedback on what you think would be the better player in the $2-3k (used) CD market. EAN. Discussions. music, then silence, then music would come back in, second, the disc drawer now won't open. I can play CD chenge tracks, but can't listen music. 4s. A Wadia 850 will make a 105 or 203 sound defective on Redbook. I only audit the ML 390s but. The GNSC mods on the Wadia 850 are aftermarket modifications that may enhance its performance. I hv been offered two mint condition CDPs - a Wadia 850 (first owner, about 2 years) for $2,300 and a Wadia 860 (more than 2 years, probably 2nd owner) for $3,700. 99. Wadia 850- CD player Audio Research LS7- Pre Amp Classe CA200- Power Amp Magnepan 2. Hello, I recently sold my all Sonic Frontiers which including cd transport, dac, preamp and power amplification and got myself a Krell FPB-300c. 24 posts. Depends where you want to push the sound on what type. Ive tried leaving the ac power off for 24hours, no good, what happens is she will play part of a track or not at all, my Question is; anybody else have this problem, and who can fix it. . Is the 861 (861B) better in this aspect than the. Wadia 850 Kijiji CA CA$200 33% Nov 15, 2023 Audio Graffiti WADIA > 15 Audio Graffiti -Nov 16, 2023 Audio Graffiti WADIA 12 Audio. 11a is currently connected to my JM Labs Mezzo's with Transparent Reference Musicwaves. See Prices; Wadia Digital CD Player 860. All I see are the 50 or so hex-like that are used for assemble and 2 allen-bolts which are both screwed in already. I listen to popular music so I would like a player that rocks. As for the 302 vs 301. a few characterists emerge: the Wadia has tremendous. I currently run a Wadia 850 direct to a Jeff Rowland Model 2, with balanced XLR interconnects. Two problems surfaced: first it would cut out on playing. i included a few thoughts about the kav300. CanadaPlease Like and Subscribe 🙏Appreciate and I am forever grateful for any s. I know Wadia makes good gear and I understand they are back in business. The 850 has unbalanced and balanced outputs and can drive any amplifier directly. I currently have a Wadia 850 CD player within a dual Home Theater / Audio system. 14 posts total. The guy at my local audio shop advised that Wadia/Spectral power amp direct connect would give poor dynamic. Amp ＞ JMR Offrande Signature 17. I currently have a Wadia 850 CD player within a dual Home Theater / Audio system. Need help from Wadia and ML CD player owners. My price range is no more then 3500. I only audit the ML 390s but. from 162873222I just purchased a Wadia 21, 10/10 less than 50 hours. Delete. How bout them Eagles? I have a Wadia 861 with a GNSC statement upgrade and I have changed every piece in my system over the last couple of years with the exception of my Wadia. I'm looking for a new CD player to replace my ayre cx7. 0, or Sony? I would like to hear comments regarding the sound characteristics of the following 4 players: ML 39, Wadia 850, Classe 1. . 5. WADIA 16 PCM1702 WADIA 21 4 x PCM1702 WADIA 25 4 x PCM1702 WADIA 27 PCM1702 WADIA 830 4 x PCM1702 WADIA 850 2 x PCM1702 WADIA 860 4 x PCM1702 . The change with the shorter ic's was not subtle. They both clearly do the job well, and offer top engineering. Prefer used. Any reason to add a pre-amp if I go with the Wadia 830? I was thinking about the Classe CP50 or new 47. It glitched about a week ago) Levinson No 331 While the Wadia is getting repaired I am using a little Adcom GTP-450 Pre-amp and a Cambridge Audio D500 Special Edition. Expand all responses; Collapse all responses; Sort . I'm looking for any advice on comparisions between these two fine CD players. How do they sound compared with each other ? Any comments please. Finally I agree with YOU that a WADIA is the player to go when it comes to Red Book CDs!Can I directly connect a Wadia 850 to a Spectral DMA 150 without using a Spectral pre-amp? I understand that the Spectral pre-amp give very current output (upto 1 amp) and a maixinum voltage of 100v peak for the power-amp. uncleseven - Wadia 861SE ＞ Nagra MPA-RCMI Int. I am thinking of sending my Wadia 850 for a modification but wonder how are these guys. I still recall the revelation of hearing the 850 for the first time. I had made the decision to buy a Meridian 588 as my single play CD player. Details. 1: Re: Wadia 25 dac (8. Lvnson 39,Wadia 850, Merid 508. or Best Offer. Currently I have all Nordost Cables in my system (SPM interconnects and Red Dawn Rev 2 speaker wire) My system is very basic and consists of a Wadia 850 run directly into a Mark Levinson 331. I'm looking to upgrade and contemplating the Wadia 850, EMC-1, Levinson or Krell 28kps CD players. The Wadia 850 was auditioned in a system featuring primarily Thiel CS6 loudspeakers driven by a pair of Mark Levinson No. Pioneer 100 Cd. . The guy at my local audio shop advised that Wadia/Spectral power amp direct connect would give poor dynamic. 39 was reviewed by Wes Phillips in the November 1997 issue of Stereophile. I think the 302 came about because Pioneer discontinued the Stable Platter transport. Details; Discussions; Posts; This discussion; Message User; 93 posts. 01) Posted by Todd Krieger on 2003-06-10, 15:52:04 (129. Kidderminster. So far i was looking at the Wadia 850 and the Mark Levinson 39. Expand all. Wadia 850 STD CD Player Transport USED JAPAN 100V Esoteric TEAC VRDS CMK-4 DAC. By the way, the CD55 sounds better than the CD50. Im failing to find any spares, dont want to scrap it for a 2 pence sized bit of plastic and cant afford to replace it. Sony Kss In Home Audio Cd Players & Recorders. I'm looking to upgrade and contemplating the Wadia 850, EMC-1, Levinson or Krell 28kps CD players. $6,299. ML Aerius I, Moon W-3, Wadia 830. Powercords made some improvements. $7,124. . 99. Opens in a new window or tab. 4 x PCM1704-K + 2 x Motorola DSP. I currently have a Wadia 850 CD player within a dual Home Theater / Audio system. ML no39, Wadia 850, Classe 1. Wadia 151 PowerDAC all digital amplifier - 50WPC / 4 ohms Audiophile Style $375 6% Apr 13, 2022. We both felt the 301 is better than the Wadia 850 in general. BEST OFFER FOR : Stereo and Home Theater System Leaving Las Vegas Sale. There's a list of fake models somewhere. $6,499. Naim CDX vs. 2s, Manley NeoClassic 250s, Wadia 850, MIT Oracle V3 speaker cables, MIT MI-350 Oracle interconnects, Black Diamond Racing Shelves and Cones in a dedicated room with ASC Tube Traps, Room Tunes and 3 X 20 amp dedicated circuits. Speaker: Avalon Acoustics Osiris, Tannoy Kensington GR, Stenheim Alumine 2, Heretic AD612 PRE: Soulution 720 incl Phono, Phasemation CM 2200 Amp: Accustic Arts Mono V, AMP II MK4, Phasemation MA-2000 DAC: Wadia 27iX CD-Drive: Wadia 270SE Musicserver: AntiPodes Oladra Switch: LHY SW-8 PhonoPre: Soulnote E. Ignoring the price, which of these will work better with my system? C37 Mcintosh ore amp, MC2720 power amp, 8 and W Nautilus 804 speakers Which will sound more musical? I know that the 850 has slightly better technology but the 2000 combo is supposed to sound more "motional"?The Wadia 922/931/270SE with extensive modifications by Steve Huntley at Great Northern Sound has been at the center of my system for over a year. J English Super Member. very hi end refernece units like the Wadia 850 costing many times more. I am looking at replacing the power cord on my wadia 850. Need some help for Wadia 850 cdp Ive got a problem, a Nasty storm came thru the area last night, now my Wadia 850 cd player wont work correctly. Copy Comment URL; Report Comment;Can I directly connect a Wadia 850 to a Spectral DMA 150 without using a Spectral pre-amp? I understand that the Spectral pre-amp give very current output (upto 1 amp) and a maixinum voltage of 100v peak for the power-amp. Wadia later decided to add a Basic model for the 861 with no digital inputs or outputs, calling it the 861 Basic. Wadia 850 vs. A used 777es player would cost $1850 to $2150 (US). 0, and Sony Xa7ES. I am thinking of sending my Wadia 850 for a modification but wonder how are these guys. Does not apply. Used Wadia for sale on 300+ second hand hifi sites & shops. [Dec 19, 1999] Randy Audio Enthusiast Strength: Wonderfully musical; extremely accurate; solidly built; great looking; great factory support. Ignoring the price, which of these will work better with my system? C37 Mcintosh ore amp, MC2720 power amp, 8 and W Nautilus 804 speakers Which will sound more musical? I know that the 850 has slightly better technology but the 2000 combo is supposed to sound more "motional"?I'm trying to connect my Wadia 850 directly into my Prem. Wadia 861 无需解释：它可能是该公司最成功的 CD 播放器，并且在全球范围内有很多关于它的文章。. I got a problem with my Wadia 850 as it will not stop the spindle when i press stop and eject. Stunning detail, soundstage beyond and outside the speaker placement. It also has digital inputs and outputs, so I compared the D/A sections by driving the Wadia. Removing a traditional preamplifier from your hifi system has undeniable sonic advantages. Copy Comment URL; Report CommentWhat is better?- wadia 850 OR wadia 2000 Trans+dac. I only audit the ML 390s but. 2. . Free returns. 35. Pioneer Stable Platter. Free shipping. The GNSC mods on the Wadia 850 are. J English Super Member. The system that the 850 is in has synergistic cables throughout and a Master Coupler for my Pass X-150. Von Schwekert VR3Need help from Wadia and ML CD player owners. This superlative audio performance is coupled to build quality of an "audio jewellery " standard. I use a Wadia 850 to drive the X150 and my Audio Physic Virgos. Wadia Digital Owner's Manual Compact Disc Player 861. porschecab 02-16-2004 7:46am. check out my review of the wadia 850 at audioreview. They can take a while to break-in but well worth the wait. Mark Levinson 390SSystem is GNSC modded Wadia 850 running into Goldmund amp driving Talon Audio Hawks. I'm looking for any advice on comparisions between these two fine CD players. Copy Comment URL; Report CommentWadia S7i direct to amp. Sony Es Cd Player. ) So when the opportunity arrived - I could not resist. Audiogon The world's largest high-end audio community. 00. 39 was reviewed by Wes Phillips in the November 1997 issue of Stereophile. Thanks!! John. . I am looking for a player with lots of bass, very dynamic, with lots of air. 79. I have owned the MF, SCD-1, and the Cary. 99. I guess the question isn't whether cables work, but whether they work in a given system. 12-11-2003. reimyo777 (1,437) 100%. But if you're looking for "warm", then Wadia may be the answer. The 27 ix is the third-generation version of the original Wadia 27, which was reviewed by Robert Harley in the October 1996 Stereophile (Vol. The speaker cables are Monster MI. Pre-Owned. 10-20-2007 at 12:48pm. Anyone know any hot tweaks that work well for a 6 year old Wadia 850? Any cable recommendations?? 911mariposa 12-10-2003 9:58pm. $6,499. The $5995 Mark Levinson No. I'm looking for any advice on comparisions between these two fine CD players. from Japan. My speakers. Vintage Wadia 6 CD Player With Power Cord And Remote Control Very Rare. I can't decide which to go for. It has variable analog outputs with both balanced XLR and single ended RCA connectors. Most visibly, it forgoes the 850/860's massive, machined aluminum chassis in favor of a smaller, more conventional—but still very well-built—unit. Resolution Audio cd55 to run directly off my pass amp. . or Best Offer. At 25kg it was a back-breaking effort. 00 and the 860x retails for 7450. The Wadia 850 cd player believes in making sense to eliminate the preamplifier from the system and dr. Wadia 850 CD Player GNSC Mods High Performance Stereo $2,750 Aug 26, 2023. Every time. I've listened to Wadia 23, 21 and 850 and they all seem to have the same kind of excellent sound. The $5995 Mark Levinson No. I currently run a Wadia 850 direct to a Jeff Rowland Model 2, with balanced XLR interconnects. 33V RMS, this measured at both the. or Best Offer. I am looking for a player with lots of bass, very dynamic, with lots of air. 6 Wadia 850, waveform of undithered 1kHz sinewave at -90. Performance opinion of Wadia 850??? Considering buying a used 850 and want to know more about it. 00. Pioneer Stable Platter PEA1030. However it looses on bass slam and dynamics to the Levinson. my Wadia 16 CDP plays me a trick. I recently replaced the Wadia with a Logitech Transporter. . I prefer the Meridian 508. Our wadia 850 has died Some triage has found the 2 step laser drive cog has no teeth left. The new 861 will have a retail price of 7950. Audiogon The world's largest high-end audio community. Where's muh custom non cogging brushless motor, rigid bridge, maglev laser sled, and alloy turn table platter WADIA 830 4 x PCM1702 WADIA 850 2 x PCM1702 WADIA 860 4 x PCM1702 . Feb 25, 2004 Wadia help Please! Can some one please explain to me what the Wadia 2000. basically, highly analytical and detailed. range. Please Like and Subscribe 🙏I Appreciate any feedback and I am forever grateful for any support afternoon ride down Shelbourne Street. Free shipping. Đầu Wadia 850 cực đẹp đầ đủ phụ kiện, mắt đọc cực nhanh không kén đĩa vừa được shop nhập về. . 06) Posted by rkeman on 2006-08-14, 13:38:13 (12. I currently have a Wadia 850 CD player within a dual Home Theater / Audio system. I guess the question isn't whether cables work, but whether they work in a given system. Since then I've been using the 850 with a. The 850 has been in our system for more than 5 years and has never experienced any sort of reliability issue. The 830 is Wadia's entry-level player. i'm thinking of replacing my 10 yr old wadia 850 by a benchmark dac 1 and an oppo transport. It shares much with its more expensive brothers, but differs in a few ways to reduce production costs. . As supplied, the Wadia 850's maximum output level was 4. I am looking for a player with lots of bass, very dynamic, with lots of air. About 5 years ago it developed a problem with the loading mechanism and a CD got. Against the No. 24 best? I have narrowed down my choices to one of these three players (I would also consider the 860) I haven't been able to compare them head to head as I sort of live in the boonies and the nearest shops have the players but at diffrent places. The only reservation I had was when I connected up the newly acquired Wadia 850 player the sound stage was not as startling as the owners of the Wadia player seem to say it would be. DY11 5AL. Krell FPB 300cx amp Krell KAV 250 (3) amp Krell KAV 250 amp Wadia 850 CD. 99. WADIA 850 high end cd spieler Kleinanzeigen €1,950 Nov 2, 2023. IMHO i disagree with the above post. I like the voice and the air in the 850 but want also the speed and slam of the Levinson. I have had the Acuphase DP75, an Arcam FMJ23, and a YBA Blue Alpha CD1 as well as a few others. I flashed back on those days when I recently watched Fierce Creatures, the John Cleese/Jamie Lee Curtis/Kevin Kline/Michael Palin vehicle, on satellite. has anyone had any listening experience with these two? The rest of my system consists of a ML 336 and B&W 802N. How do they sound compared with each other ? Any comments please. Wadia Models 6, 16, 21, 23, 301, 830, 831, 850, 861. I currently run a Wadia 850 direct to a Jeff Rowland Model 2, with balanced XLR interconnects. So what's going on? When a cd is inside, if I light the unit on, it plays it directly (and always extremely well). Is the 861 (861B) better in this aspect than the. Well, when I turn the 850 on its side to look for anything that even closely resembles a transit screw, there is nothing. I hv been offered two mint condition CDPs - a Wadia 850 (first owner, about 2 years) for $2,300 and a Wadia 860 (more than 2 years, probably 2nd owner) for $3,700. Free shipping. Pioneer Multi Cd Changer. 99. 00. 4 responses Add your response. Wadia 850. Honest but partially shameless plug. VRDS CMK-4-a –. Reviews of their more expensive CD players, the 850 and 860, appeared in Stereophile in May and June 1998, respectively, and both are listed in Class A of. 5 (X-Series)The Wadia 121Decoding Computer uses the latest generation of Wadia s proprietary digital volume control. Parts Only. Like the Wadia, the. I need a short (. In a nutshell, the Wadia 830, 301, and 302 are evolutionary upgrades to their product line of budget CD players. but a bit cold. Wadia 850 cd player Description : In WADIA's worldview, the preamplifier is a relic of the past. I listen to popular music so I would like a player that rocks. When these include their own volume controls, either in the digital (eg, Wadia 850 and 860, dCS Elgar, Meridian 518) or the analog (Krell KPS-20i/l) domain, their audio outputs can be directly linked to the power amplifier, eliminating the. The 850 and 39 had strengths and weaknesses comparatively but the 390S was in a different league. Against the No. All I see are the 50 or so hex-like that are used for assemble and 2 allen-bolts which are both screwed in already.